2.2 MAP Sensor

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2.2 MAP Sensor

Postby ionizakari » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:31 pm

So..I was talking with one of my buddies about his friends turbo'ed 2.2 Ecotec Cavalier and that he didnt have to really do too much modification because of his MAP. He was saying that because most MAPs only measure up to about 0 in. Hg vaccum and dont go into PSI, that most require lots of mods to adapt them for boost. But his somehow was stock programmed for his MAP to read up to 8 PSI boost. He looked at my MAP and told me i had the same one so it would take up to about 8 PSI of boost before it needed standalone or piggy back. Can anyone confirm or deny this about an 03 2.2?
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Re: 2.2 MAP Sensor

Postby 06_ion2 » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:33 pm

lol if you boost on a map it only really reads incomming air temps. you can just leave it in the engine bay out of the tube, thats what brandon did with his old procharged 2.2
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Re: 2.2 MAP Sensor

Postby ionizakari » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:42 pm

He had his in the stock location. I was kinda thinkin to myself that it couldnt be possible but I couldnt tell. All I know is I'm starting to piece together a turbo system but have no plans on installing for a while til i get more cash for it.
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Re: 2.2 MAP Sensor

Postby ElvisC » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:33 am

06_ion2 wrote:lol if you boost on a map it only really reads incomming air temps. you can just leave it in the engine bay out of the tube, thats what brandon did with his old procharged 2.2



no it doesn't. it read the pressure of the intake manifold but the stock configuration will not support boost.

the IAT reads the air temp.
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Re: 2.2 MAP Sensor

Postby froggy81500 » Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:02 am

ElvisC wrote:
06_ion2 wrote:lol if you boost on a map it only really reads incomming air temps. you can just leave it in the engine bay out of the tube, thats what brandon did with his old procharged 2.2



no it doesn't. it read the pressure of the intake manifold but the stock configuration will not support boost.

the IAT reads the air temp.


Exactly. they are confusing MAP with MAF. On the eco's with a MAF, it is both the MAF and IAT in one.

A standard MAP sensor will only read vacuum, not pressure.
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Re: 2.2 MAP Sensor

Postby ElvisC » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:51 am

froggy81500 wrote:
ElvisC wrote:
06_ion2 wrote:lol if you boost on a map it only really reads incomming air temps. you can just leave it in the engine bay out of the tube, thats what brandon did with his old procharged 2.2



no it doesn't. it read the pressure of the intake manifold but the stock configuration will not support boost.

the IAT reads the air temp.


Exactly. they are confusing MAP with MAF. On the eco's with a MAF, it is both the MAF and IAT in one.

A standard MAP sensor will only read vacuum, not pressure.


a 1 Bar BAP Sensor will read up to 14.7psi (1 atmosphere) so from vacuum-0 is actually 14.7psi but it's only 1 atmosphere.

2 bar is 2 atmospheres to thats 14.7psi over atmosphere. ...etc
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Re: 2.2 MAP Sensor

Postby ionizakari » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:55 am

So is the 2.2 Cavi Eco MAP able to read up to one bar? Cuz he was telling me he didnt have to mess with it
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Re: 2.2 MAP Sensor

Postby ElvisC » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:54 pm

ionizakari wrote:So is the 2.2 Cavi Eco MAP able to read up to one bar? Cuz he was telling me he didnt have to mess with it


A car needs to have at least a 2 bar map sensor in order to read up to 14.7PSI

The 2.2 ION has a 1 bar map sensor
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Re: 2.2 MAP Sensor

Postby ionizakari » Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:41 pm

ElvisC wrote:
ionizakari wrote:So is the 2.2 Cavi Eco MAP able to read up to one bar? Cuz he was telling me he didnt have to mess with it


A car needs to have at least a 2 bar map sensor in order to read up to 14.7PSI

The 2.2 ION has a 1 bar map sensor


So I will need a 2 bar eventually down the line when i boost if i'm reading correctly, right?
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Re: 2.2 MAP Sensor

Postby ElvisC » Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:02 pm

ionizakari wrote:
ElvisC wrote:
ionizakari wrote:So is the 2.2 Cavi Eco MAP able to read up to one bar? Cuz he was telling me he didnt have to mess with it


A car needs to have at least a 2 bar map sensor in order to read up to 14.7PSI

The 2.2 ION has a 1 bar map sensor


So I will need a 2 bar eventually down the line when i boost if i'm reading correctly, right?


the ion ecu won't know what to do with a 2 bar map sensor unless it can be reprogrammed which is currently being done right now
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Re: 2.2 MAP Sensor

Postby 06_ion2 » Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:23 pm

so i cant run over 14.7psi?
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Re: 2.2 MAP Sensor

Postby yankees8 » Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:39 pm

Yes you can run more then 14.7psi. 14.7 is atmospheric pressure which is id guess say the "natural" pressure from the outside of the car. Meaning that is what the 1 bar MAP sensor reads is the "natural" air pressure. However much PSI you add to the atmospheric pressure (14.7) is why you would need a 2 bar map setting to be able to read the extra pressure, because the 1 bar is only reading up to 14.7psi.
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Re: 2.2 MAP Sensor

Postby 06_ion2 » Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:55 pm

i want to run a 2.25 pulley on my procharger next summer. thats like 19-21psi.
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Re: 2.2 MAP Sensor

Postby ElvisC » Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:29 am

06_ion2 wrote:i want to run a 2.25 pulley on my procharger next summer. thats like 19-21psi.

you have an 05+ which is MAF based and not MAP based.

you'll be tuning by cfm and not kpa
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Re: 2.2 MAP Sensor

Postby stormgreyion2 » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:57 am

we still have a map, it is still used, but I am not sure you need a 2 bar map, I've only dealt with one FI car, and it was a mess, so that was the last question I had for the guy. maybe someone who had more of a chance to pay attention, or who has done it can shine a light on this.
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Re: 2.2 MAP Sensor

Postby 06_ion2 » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:49 am

stormgreyion2 wrote:we still have a map, it is still used, but I am not sure you need a 2 bar map, I've only dealt with one FI car, and it was a mess, so that was the last question I had for the guy. maybe someone who had more of a chance to pay attention, or who has done it can shine a light on this.

thats kinda why im waiting till next year so vince can reliece the tuning software this winter and im going to have the best tuner in MN tune it this summer on the rollers :bigthumpup:
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Re: 2.2 MAP Sensor

Postby stormgreyion2 » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:59 am

good idea, I trust vince personally and solely with tuning my car, if I feel it's worth my money to get the software/new cable I will learn from him, and no one else. he is the tuning god IMO, he can effectively and safely tune so many different engine/ECU/TCM/PCM combos himself without a doubt in his mind it's amazing. HPtuners relies on the dealer knowing how to tune or knowing someone who does, they have no one person who can program ALL supported cars.
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Re: 2.2 MAP Sensor

Postby aikidoshadow » Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:05 am

stormgreyion2 wrote:good idea, I trust vince personally and solely with tuning my car, if I feel it's worth my money to get the software/new cable I will learn from him, and no one else. he is the tuning god IMO, he can effectively and safely tune so many different engine/ECU/TCM/PCM combos himself without a doubt in his mind it's amazing. HPtuners relies on the dealer knowing how to tune or knowing someone who does, they have no one person who can program ALL supported cars.

I'm glad you like Vince (if he gets tuning for the 03-04s then I will give him the tuning messiah title) but you don't know what you're talking about with HPT, you're kinda just talking shit actually, once again you have been demoted to wrongy. HPT works on all its supported cars, Bill and the folks over there would laugh you out of the office if they heard these out right falsehoods you just proclaimed. If your gonna be a Trifecta fan, good but don't bullshit people. :banghead:
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Re: 2.2 MAP Sensor

Postby stormgreyion2 » Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:18 am

ok, I shouldn't say they can't, but they haven't necessarily done it before, vince tunes one, that's how he does it, but apparently they don't always actually tune one at HPT. this is coming from a dealer, so if it's wrong, sorry
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Re: 2.2 MAP Sensor

Postby aikidoshadow » Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:23 pm

stormgreyion2 wrote:ok, I shouldn't say they can't, but they haven't necessarily done it before, vince tunes one, that's how he does it, but apparently they don't always actually tune one at HPT. this is coming from a dealer, so if it's wrong, sorry

The HPT staff works with the PCMs specifically and once they are able to open the PCM that is similar to another PCM a lot of work is already done and they cant short cut yes, but they do test to see if their software works on the PCMs. They don't necessarily HAVE to have the car present to hook up and work on a PCM. But they do work with the PCMs to test and QA their findings. Its not like they just throw software out to let their customers test it for them. :lol: Now are you referring to dealers such as people who sell the cars or the people who sell HPT? HPT is sold through themselves, so there is no real need for a middle man people can buy the suite and resell it though. Car dealers would never deal with HPT since they use their own proprietary tools to flash the OEM spec calibrations onto the PCM. GM TechII, etc. Even the untunable E16a can have a calibration flashed on it, its unlocking it for adjustment that is the problem. Performance shops would use HPT, but that goes back to the reseller thing.
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